Episode 103: How to Have a Good Phone Call
How do you have a good phone call with a prospect? How do you prepare enough?
Summary
Nick and Kai walk through what makes a business phone call work, covering prep, structure, and follow-through. The central argument is that calls exchange information faster than email or Slack, and the discipline to run them well is a learnable skill, not a natural one.
Highlights
- State the call’s purpose at the top. Nick’s framing: ‘the goal of this phone call is X.’ Whoever names the purpose holds the conversation, even when the next move is to hand it over and listen.
- Pleasantries (weather, your failing baseball team) are not optional. They open the call. Skipping them is not efficiency.
- After a prospect stops talking, stay quiet for another 20 seconds. Kai: they usually add more. That extra material is often the most useful thing said.
- Kai blocks phone calls to specific days and hours in Calendly. That frees his mornings for impromptu calls rather than leaving the whole calendar open to whoever asks.
- Nick requires a 30-minute Calendly air gap before and after every booked call. The buffer after is for writing up notes and sending a summary email with action items while the call is still fresh.
- Restate the next steps out loud before hanging up. Nick: both parties often leave with different versions of what was agreed, and that’s when a communication flub happens.
- Record calls and listen back. Nick: cut filler words, watch your pacing, check whether you’re actually getting to the point. Kai: listen for whether you hesitate when saying the price.
Read the transcript
So, a listener wrote in with a question about how to have a good phone call in the business context. How should you have a good phone call of a prospect? How do you prepare enough? And Nick and I have a lot of phone calls with a lot of people, and I thought this would be an exciting topic for us to dive into. And just as a reminder, if any of the listeners out there have a question, a topic, a suggestion, you could go to makemoneyonline. exposed and click the contact us link down in the footer and send us an email with your suggestion. We’ll promise to read it and promptly reply or not reply if it’s not a good suggestion. But we look forward to hearing from you.
It’s very possible to make bad suggestions, right? So you have to be careful to make sure that you’re doing a good suggestion. You might want to ask like your parents if it’s a good suggestion or a loved one, lest you, you know. Risk wasting Kai’s time.
Exactly. Kelly just automatically deletes it. No. I’m not going to read the email. It’s just. But we do love and appreciate your suggestions, dear listener. But. In terms of phone calls, it’s an interestingly challenging area. Like, I think achieving a minimal level of competence on the phone Is something most people can do, but really taking it to that next level and saying, How do I up my game? How do I get to a 200 or a 300 level in terms of preparing for a phone call, having a phone call That’s a bit harder. What’s your experience been sort of learning how to have a good phone call?
There are a few kinds of phone calls. One of them is getting over my anxiety about phone calls. I used to I used to hate phone calls until I had a client where I would like email them a question. This was before Slack, so there was email. Or I would be on Campfire or some hip chat, God help us. And I would send them a question, and about 30 seconds later, I would get a phone call from them. And I’d be like, What’s wrong? They’d be like, I just wanted to answer your question. I’m like, Why did you call me? But then it would get wrapped up in maybe under a minute, you know? So the goal about a phone call and the benefits of a phone call that you can have a very focused conversation. You can exchange more information over a phone call than you can over Slack or over email. And you could do it in a faster amount of time. So decisions get made faster. And that’s like one of the biggest lessons I learned from this client. He was a sociopath, otherwise, but this was a very valuable lesson. And so the goal with the phone call, you have to come into it with the same sort of intentionality as the other person. And they’re probably on the phone with you because they want to exchange a lot of information quickly. Let’s just take the like super programmer like tack, like logical Vulcan tack on it and say like you’re there to exchange strings of text quicker than you could on Slack. Cool. Okay. Also, you have to recognize that the only thing that they can do is hear your voice. Well, I’m on a podcast right now, and I have to make sure that I’m pacing myself and using the same kind of voice that indicates my own intention and body language, right? Because you can’t see me gesticulating. So if you’re normally a very gesticulatey type person, think about the way that your voice is going to gesticulate and try and control that when you’re on the call. Because I, and this is a thing that you’re going to be practicing for like a year and a half at. You’re not going to be good at it right off the bat. If you need, record your phone calls. Make sure you cut out a and um. Make sure you’re talking and getting to the point. Phone calls usually involve an exchange of pleasantries. The exchange of pleasantries is not optional. This is something where there’s a. There’s a business I like to cite here called Aesop that they’re a very good stand in for like a luxury goods category. We’ve talked about them on Make Money Online quite a few times in the past. Here’s one where you shouldn’t do what Aesop does. You know what Aesop does? They never talk to you about the weather if they’re a salesperson, because it is not substantial enough. And I’m here to tell you that the beginning of the phone call is to talk about the fucking weather. Especially when you live in a city like Chicago, where the only thing to talk about is the weather most of the time and it governs your life. This is, you know, something that people are always horrified when they’re in Florida and they find out it’s too out. And they’re like, well, that’s a number below 86. And I’m like, yes. Is your thermometer broken? Are you sure? They think it’s two out. Sometimes they actually have to pause and think, like, what does the number two mean in that sentence? Like they’re like two what? Like there are two antelopes standing outside of your house? It’s two standards. No, it’s two out. And so you and you have to talk about the pleasantries. How are you? I’m fine. You have to get through that, right? And you can make that fast. But you usually have to do the stupid thing where you talk about the weather, you talk about your failing baseball team, or whatever have you, and then you move into the actual meat of the thing. You should come in with a clear sense of how to begin the phone call. No matter what kind of phone call it is, there has to be a purpose to it. Otherwise, you’re wasting everybody’s time. And so you say, the goal of this phone call is to X. Right. And then you’ve immediately begun controlling the conversation because you don’t want to be one of those people that’s like, so what’s up? Because then they control the conversation. And then You’re going to just kind of be sitting there and listening. And if you’re a con and this is a weird thing to say, but if you’re an independent consultant and you’re listening to this, the whole goal is for them to fucking listen to you. It’s not going to be, you should be talking about something, right? And it could even be: the goal of this phone call is for me to figure out what your strategy is, right? And then it puts the honest on them, and you have deliberately, you were holding the ball, you consciously gave it to them, right? So it goes both ways, but it should start probably with you. Unless there’s some sort of fucked up emergency, which is a different kind of call.
Right, right. Yeah. And I think that’s where it’s important to think about the different types of calls that one might experience. You have. Colleague, acquaintance, friend calls. You have prospecting calls or initial conversation calls with leads and clients. You have status update calls with clients. Those are the three major categories in my mind. Is there anything you’d add to that list?
Yeah, kind of getting to know you calls. Sometimes there’s calls where you need to solve a really thorny, weird thing where you’re like grinding at it in Slack and you just Take a deep breath and say, I want to get on a call about this. That’s a specific genre of call. And I find myself doing that often because text is dismal. for actually exchanging ideas most of the time. I feel like I’m just throwing paper airplanes in class most of the time compared to a phone call.
No, I completely agree. What I too have shared that fear of the phone. And what I discovered over the last few years as a consultant is exactly as you put it. You’re able to exchange information at a faster pace when it comes to a phone call. You’re able to deliver more information or receive more information. And so I’m trying to optimize more and more to have shorter, more frequent phone calls rather than longer. Email threads just because it’s easier to get on the phone and say, Okay, tell me about your business. How could I help? Sounds like I could help. Here are the next steps. You’ll accomplish that in 20 or 30 minutes, where it might take multiple emails over multiple days to reach that same conclusion. So my God, yeah. Yeah.
Couldn’t agree more. I mean, I’m just I’m just sitting here thinking, like, how many emails have gone back and forth on something that could have been a five minute call? Like, please, for the love of God, don’t be shy. The biggest thing is, don’t be shy to get on the phone. Find every reason to get on the phone.
I completely agree. And I think there’s an interesting balance there between using a tool like Calendly or another calendar booking tool versus impromptu phone conversations. I advocate using something like Helen Lee just so you’re able to have designated times where you have phone calls with prospects or people who want to book a call with you. But I think that’s in the greater service of freeing up the rest of your day to have impromptu calls if necessary. So I personally block it out. So I only have phone calls on specific days of the week from say 1 p. m. to 5 p. m. And if somebody wants to book a call with me, those are the times that are available. But that means my mornings or other times are available to jump on a quick call with somebody, to have a quick chat about a topic or an idea. Solve whatever the question or the problem put in front of us is. By C unboxing time for scheduled calls, I leave myself free to say, okay, you know, my morning is empty. I’m free at 9 a. m. , 10 a. m. , or 10:30. When do you want to jump on a call for a quick 20-minute chat to solve this problem or answer this question? By designating, by creating the space for scheduled calls, you give yourself, I believe, more freedom to have unscheduled calls. It’s not all a mishmash. If somebody wants to come through your application process and work with you, they book a call to talk with you. If you want to have a call of somebody and say, hey, great, this time is available, you’re able to jump on the call. Then you don’t have to worry about playing Time Tetris with your calendar.
Yeah, the only time you ever get to do impromptu phone calls is if you’re the one who initiates and it’s with an existing paying client. Like people just come in the door and are like, can we get on a quick call to discuss? Like, no. There’s a process, yo. Follow it. Here’s some directions. I’m far too busy to entertain. I am a one-man shop, and I’m far too busy to entertain. like tire kicker calls from literally anyone. So the moment it switches into a call, it has to happen in a structured way. And then once you pay me That’s great, but then calls should still happen in a structured way, and there should be clear established criteria for when you do and especially do not get on a call. And if the CEO just has like thoughts, like calendly, please. That’s it, you know? Deep thoughts with Jack Handy. Dash good. Yeah, and you have like some sort of, I don’t know, ITC Bradley hand inspirational poster in the background where you’re like, go for your dreams. Like, no, that is not the kind of call. that is worth throwing down whatever deep work you were thinking about that was valuable and important and hard to get back in the frame of mind for. So you have to know when to understand the importance of an impromptu phone call. And it’s usually when you reach an impasse on something you were already working on in the first place. That’s the best time to do that.
So, here’s a question: To have the structure around calls, do you prepare agendas for calls that you go into?
Yes, so before a call, I have a notepad, and it’s the same notepad that I use for my notes for the call. And I just write out all of the points I want to discuss on the call. If it’s a draft revised call, I already print out the application and have a lot of ideas written up on your application. So I’ve done my homework for any call, paid, nonpaid, anything. And then I draw a big horizontal line, and that begins the actual notes that I’m physically taking on the call. And that’s it. Yeah, no, I You have to do your homework before you get on a call. It’s a call. You should approach the other person with dignity and respect for their time. And if you are just coming in being like, so what’s up? You are not respecting their time. That is unprofessional.
No, I completely agree. For calls that I go into. I prepare that agenda ahead of time. Sometimes it’s a Google Docs, sometimes it’s notes that I make for myself in my notebook. But I find having that agenda, having this documentation prepared ahead of time. It allows you to step into the call and more easily say, Hey, great, I prepared a few questions. If you have anything, let’s make sure we make time for it. But let’s start off the call with question number one. To your point earlier about who sort of has that power frame, who sort of is controlling the call, what I find is by showing up with a prepared agenda, by showing up with A sense of what you’re going to talk about, you are the person that is leading the call, even if you are passing that baton over them to tell you more information about their business. On, let’s say, a client application call where somebody wants to work with me. I’ll prepare that agenda. I’ll want to learn a lot about their business. My goal on those calls is to shut up and listen as much as possible, but I’m also the one steering the call. I’m starting out the call. I’m saying this is where we’re starting the discussion. This is the first question, the second question, moving them through. But every time I’m asking a question, I’m just shutting up, letting the client, the prospect, the other person talk. And taking notes, and then when they’re done talking, shutting up for another 20 seconds and see what else they say. Since oftentimes, when they stop talking, there’s more to say by giving them some additional space. They now share whatever that additional ancillary thought is. So I very much like preparing that agenda and having it as the structure.
There’s such a beautiful art to shutting up because it’s not just sitting there in silence because that’s stunned shutting up, right? It’s sitting there being like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, that’s very interesting. That is interested shutting up that encourages them to keep saying things. You want them to keep saying things until there are no more things to be said. This is the key of I mean, this is the secret of every great interviewer. Like this, it’s a very good skill to be practicing as a consultant.
I completely agree. One thing I’ve started doing, especially on Initial calls is having a fit. Well, I think as a rule for all calls, give yourself a buffer after that call just so you don’t accidentally trap yourself in, like, oh, I have four back-to-back-to-back-to-back calls today. Somebody pour me a double shot, or else I’m not going to be able to get through this. I put a 15 to a 30-minute buffer at the end, and I use that for a very specific purpose. On initial calls or in initial conversations with prospects, we might be getting towards the end of the call. Let’s say we schedule 20 or 30 minutes for this initial call. I’ll say, hey, you know what? We’re approaching time. I could go a little long on this because we’re getting into some interesting topics here. Do you also have time to go long on this? We could go for an additional 15 minutes. If not, Let’s set up another time right now to continue the call. I found by having this buffer, we’re able to either bleed slightly into it to finish up whatever deep topic we got into. Or, hey, you know what? They’re booked with a back-to-back call. Okay, great. I’m glad we stopped the call a couple minutes early to check in around time. And now we could schedule the follow-up call and continue this conversation forward. So there’s really two tips encapsulated there.
Yeah, I like that a lot. And one thing that I like doing is if it’s like a half hour call and it’s just kind of informational and it’s like on a roll. I usually like five minutes beforehand, I’m always looking up at the clock. And you should have a time visible while you are on the call. So, like five minutes beforehand, I’m like, I know we’re about to come up on time and I want to make sure that we’re respecting each other’s time. Are there any major points that we want to be getting out of this? And then, usually, what they say Is, oh, I’ve got as much time as we need for this. This is great. And I’m like, great, that’s fine. Or if there’s a hard stop, you know, okay, well, uh We should schedule another call. Here’s my countly link, et cetera. I also countly allows you to Program in air gap and custom event types. It won’t let you book an event if it’s not like 15 or 30 minutes before or after an event, like whatever arbitrary amount of time that you want to be setting. When I do that, I actually have it to be 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after a call. You can’t book on my schedule if it’s not 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after a call. That’s because at the end of the call. What I do is I write up all my thoughts of the call and I usually send an email that summarizes everything, because usually out of it comes like various action items and steps. It’s another thing. You should have a clear next step or series of next steps after the phone call ends. And you should articulate those directly to the recipient so that we all have alignment on marching orders. This is something that a lot of people screw up. It’s like, okay, great. Well, I think I know what to do. Great. Bye. Hangs up. And you both have different senses of what to be doing in your head. And that’s when you have a communication flub, and that sucks.
Completely agreed. Completely agreed. What I find works best, exactly as you said. Reiterate what those next steps are. Write down those next steps. If you have a shared agenda, put those next steps Into that agenda, just so you both have an idea of something you’re able to reference and you don’t have to go through. Maybe there’s five or 10 points that came out of the call. It’s going to be logistically challenging to run through all of those. We’ll have them in the doc, we’re able to reference the doc, and then we’re able to move forward with them. But I completely agree, having a clear idea of what those next steps are for both parties. is incredibly essential. Be it, hey, you know what, this was a great call. I’ll send you over a payment link and we could book a time for the actual project to, hey, this was a great touch and base call. I’ll send you the three notes that came out of this call and we’ll move forward with the project as discussed. Whatever it is, there should be a next action coming out of the call. Maybe it’s only a touching base call. Maybe it’s somebody who you contact or communicate with every three months or so. Maybe at the end of the call, it’s as simple as, hey, you know what? It was great to catch up with you. Do you want to do this again in three months? Hey, yeah, I’d love to. Great. Let’s book something right now. I’m available March, da-da-da. Hey, I’m available then too. And you’re able to set up the time then.
You know, phone calls, I think the danger with them is that they feel like they come naturally. But phone calls feel more like this weird process of acting to me, which does not come naturally. It’s very foreign to me. And it’s not like Picking up the phone and dialing, I don’t know how to do that. Like, I can dress myself, come on. But, like, the way to comport yourself on a call such that you get maximal value from it. And both parties feel very heard, and you come out looking good, and you both come out with actionable steps, and you feel like you didn’t waste each other’s time. All of that is a pretty big Like heavy ask, isn’t it?
And I’m sure there’s people in the audience right now who are listening to this and saying, oh, I’m never having a phone call again. How can I live up to that standard? And the truth is, you get there over time. You get there by, like Nick said at the top of the episode. Record your phone calls. Listen back to them. If you’re doing sales calls for your business or you’re a sales consultant, whatever it is, listen through and hear how your sales pitch goes. Do you? Sort of stutter when it comes to telling them the price. Do you say um and uh a lot? Are you not asking questions? Listening back to your calls gives you actionable information on how to improve. And that’s really all you could aim for: being a little better tomorrow than you are today.
Notes
- How long should the call be?
- Should you leave a buffer after the call?
- Should you prepare an agenda?
- How do you determine who is leading the call?
- How do you end the call?