Episode 51:How Do You Develop a Voice
Summary
Nick and Kai work through what it actually means to develop a distinctive voice as a writer or independent worker. The conversation moves from the standard advice (read Strunk and White, be a good communicator) to the harder truth: voice comes from vulnerability, accumulated life experience, and a willingness to publish things that feel risky. They use the ‘Most Wanted Song / Most Unwanted Song’ experiment and a story about Nick’s book getting someone berated in a bar to make the case that a polarizing voice beats a palatable one.
Highlights
- Kai’s test for authentic voice: if writing feels vulnerable, if it hurts to put the words on the page, he’s close to something real. Staying in safe territory produces homogenized output.
- Nick traces his cavalier attitude toward newsletter backlash to knowing what actual pain is. Losing loved ones to drug abuse is pain. A negative reaction to a turkey email is not.
- A pair of researchers ran a survey asking people what they loved and hated most in music, then composed two songs. The ‘Most Wanted Song’ is a forgettable three-minute pop ballad. The ‘Most Unwanted Song’ runs 22 minutes and includes accordion solos, an opera singer rapping the national anthem, and a children’s choir telling you to shop at Walmart. It has far more YouTube views.
- Kai’s read on why: people articulate dislikes more precisely than likes. The negatives carry stronger emotion, so aggregating them produces something more engaging than averaging preferences.
- Kai’s frame for publishing anyway is outcome independence: what matters is practicing the action, not the result. His most-responded-to newsletter post was about a bad date. He expected hate; 50 people wrote back about their own bad dates.
- Your audience doesn’t see your mistakes. Nick bombed an Ignite talk last week and got mobbed afterward. He’s the only one who knows he blew it, and he says that’s true for almost everything.
- The goal is polarization, not approval. A Kickstarter co-founder emailed Nick to say someone had accosted him in a bar for reading Cadence and Slang. Kai celebrates unsubscribes for the same reason: they confirm he’s taken a position.
Read the transcript
She gave a presentation at Bacon Viz in 2016, and it was really well received. And it was about On a deeper level, finding your voice as an author, finding your voice as somebody who’s sending emails, finding your voice as a creative in the online world. I thought it would be interesting if we chatted a bit about how you develop a voice, since there’s a process to find a voice, but there’s also that process of iterating and refining your voice. You have a very unique voice in your newsletter. I have a very homogenized voice in my newsletter, and I’m trying to break away from it. But I think it’s intriguing just to talk about. How do you develop a voice? How do you figure out what makes sense as a voice? How do you figure out what doesn’t make sense as a voice? And how do you sort of iterate through this whole muddly mess? I know. Lots of consultants I’m friends with say, I want to write more. I just don’t know what my voice should be or what I’m supposed to sound like. Just broadly speaking, as a topic, like, how do you recommend developing a voice as a writer or as a professional? What steps to take? What questions should we answer?
Well, you know, I think the easiest way to go about this is to talk about good writing techniques and like buy Strunken White, buy William Zinser. You know, go and read those books. Read the Virginia Tufte book about well-constructed sentences and understand what the rules are and how to break them. Be a good communicator, right? But we’ve talked about how being a good communicator is valuable in the past, right? And we I don’t have to tell you being a good communicator is valuable for being an independent worker or consultant or whatever have you. I think that that is Pretty established. But more deeply, I think the biggest question is how do you do the mindset shift that allows you to establish a unique voice for yourself? Because people constantly tell me that I have a unique voice for myself, and I’m grateful for that. It’s wonderful. How did that get cultivated? And how Is it generalizable to other people? Because I don’t think that the answer is to become like the exact brand of lunatic that I am, because then you have two Nick Ds, right? But more importantly, You know, if we’re workshopping Kai Davis as a person, I can’t help Kai Davis become more like Kai Davis by recommending that he become more like Nick D. So the challenge in offering any sort of actionable advice around this is I tell you about my own story in this very myopic and blinkered fashion, and then it doesn’t actually help you, right? Or you go and listen to like design interview porn, like these websites like The Great Discontent or the setup. I’ve been on the setup, but it’s all like the basically the same questions. And the interview winds around and whatever, but it’s it’s Idol porn. That’s what it is. And it’s a bunch of people that have their own distinct voices, and the like narrative that it takes to get to that distinct voice is actually pretty samey. It’s like, I tried a lot of things, and it was really hard. Now I’m the director of design at Google. And it’s like, well, okay, so cool. Yeah, I won the lottery. I worked until I had my big break. And you can have your big break too, dear aspirational person. And like. Come on, you know, like that’s not actually helpful because there are a million people who want To be in the same situation, right? They want to be the director of design at Google, but there’s relatively few of those to go around, right? Like the top of the pyramid is narrow and tiny for a reason. And you end up idolizing these people for a reason. And they end up getting on the great discontent or creative mornings for a reason. It’s nothing against the quality of those websites. They’re giving people what they want to see, right? But what you actually want to see is more like actionable in the trenches advice about like developing a voice, right? And the problem is that that looks like huddling in a corner, drinking Malorton, listening to Joy Division after an early sundown in a cold winter. Nobody nobody ever wants that, you know? Like, I actually think that A lot of my voice comes about because I have an extremely cavalier attitude about my business and about life. And as a result, I End up having a point of view that is simultaneously wonderstruck and gluttonous, I think. Like I get to travel to Copenhagen and eat all of this amazing food and fuck everyone else. And that’s kind of my point of view. And that’s like kind of cynical reading of it, right? But it’s also like. Okay, well, in order to have Nick D’s point of view, be really, really super lazy and don’t take crap from anyone. Have a background where you were put in a lot of really, really rough personal situations and frankly scarred extensively for the better part of a decade. And then given extreme privileges and then Opportunities to travel around and experience a bunch of different perspectives and a lot of really damn good food. And then you have Nick D’s point of view, right? That’s not helpful. It’s not helpful. And I could tell you all of the like salty details of my background, but even that’s not helpful because you’re not 19 anymore. And I maybe the takeaway is to have a more interesting background. And be a more interesting person. But that’s not even helpful either, because then that makes a pronouncement on you that you’re not an interesting person. But everyone’s an interesting person.
I think you’re headed in the right direction there. Everybody’s an interesting person, and you’re right. It’s finding that Interestingness, that quality of interesting that allows you to capture your voice. What I have found in my writing, in conversations with other people, it’s Your closest, at least I think I am closest to my authentic voice or what I know my authentic voice to be as a writer right now. When I feel vulnerable while writing, if I feel vulnerable, I am peeling back the skin and the flesh far enough to be like, it hurts to put these words on the paper. I’m getting closer to something here. If I’m constantly staying in a safe space, I’m not pushing my own boundaries. I’m not discovering my voice. I’m not discovering how to communicate a concept in my voice, but it’s when I lay it bare. It’s when I let. The pain, the suffering, the joy come through and show through, similar to how you’re illustrating: like, hey, go through a life like this, come out the other side, and you’re gonna fucking have a voice. Well, yes, I think everybody has that. It’s becoming vulnerable enough during the process of writing and becoming vulnerable enough in the process of publishing to be able to demonstrate that. Since everybody has the scars, everybody has a life they’ve led, everybody has stories to tell. Not everybody is comfortable telling those stories because to tell a story, to write 1,500 words to your newsletter about a sandwich, to write about. Life events you go through, to write about the travel you’ve gone through, to take a strong and unconventional and possibly controversial opinion on things. Leads to feeling vulnerable. It leads to exposing yourself. To say, I strongly believe A and B is wrong. Well, you’re going to piss off some people, and it’s going to be like, ah, this is scary. This is different. Good. That’s the point you want to be at. That’s the point, I think, where you are developing your voice. Any moment where you’re able to feel that moment of vulnerability, that tinge of, like, ooh, this is real. I feel a little nervous writing this. I’m going to feel a little nervous publishing it. I think you’re closer to expressing your true voice as a writer.
I think you’re exactly right. I mean, I, you get one life, man. Like, and you can take the safe road. And I think there’s definitely like a risk aversion part of our brain that makes us want to take the safe road because there’s There’s risk in messing up or doing something that could harm yourself or your career, your loved ones, or something like that. And I get it. So I think part of why I said I have this very cavalier attitude is like I know what actual pain and stress are. Like I know them. And a backlash on my stupid mailing list for me talking about souv eating a turkey is not it. You know? It’s like losing loved ones to drug abuse. That’s pain. Okay? That’s real. And if you haven’t ever been through that in your life, well, great. I’m, you know, grateful for you know, I don’t want to wish pain on anybody or, you know, serious stress or anything like that. But I think that that’s actually factored into my perspective quite a bit.
I really do. No, I very much agree. I mean, the Nick I’m talking with right now, the Kai you’re talking with right now, we are the summation of the life experiences we have had. If you remove the pain, if you got rid of those memories, if you could push a button and lose them. You are not the same person anymore. And because of that, you don’t have the same voice. So you’re absolutely right. It is the summation of the pain, of the angst, of the strife, of the joy, of the happiness, of the love we’ve gone through. That leads to having a voice. And I guess one thing we haven’t even touched on that I think is, I don’t know the answer to this, but I think it’s a fun exercise to try to define: is What do we even mean by having a voice as a writer or as a consultant or as a business owner? Does this touch on positioning? Does this hit somewhere else? Like, where does having a voice shine through?
We can’t use the P-word for the entirety of this podcast.
Gotcha. No pasta.
No pasta. No pasta. No, but um I think that’s a great question. A v person’s voice is It’s very ineffable. It’s the thing that makes you human. It’s the thing that makes you relatable. And it’s the thing that makes you seem vaguely interesting to an audience, right? For me, I think it’s also the thing that makes people feel like they’re not wasting their time listening to me. Right. And in a sense, there’s an act of generosity going on there because I am. Or at least I try to be a modestly interesting person and not waste the reader’s time. So when I’m doing that, I’m, how do I put this? I am simultaneously giving it as much effort as humanly possible and not giving a crap about the ramifications of it.
Right. Yep. And there’s on the creation, not the effect, once it is created.
Yeah, and it’s such a weird cognitive dissonance to simultaneously care and not care about certain aspects of the work. Right? The process of creating work is what matters. There was an ambient electronic artist named Pete Namluk in the Eighties and nineties, and his record label was called Fax, and then a really long Fax phone line. And of course, this was the eighties, and this was mail order, so you would fax the phone line. And the record label had the fax number stamped on it, so that’s all you knew about the information. And then they would mail you information about the record label, and you would get to subscribe to this record label. And it was basically just this guy, like, jamming out ambient tunes on vinyl, hundreds of them, with various collaborators for the better part of two decades. Motherfucker didn’t sleep, right? And I don’t think that anyone who’s ever been into the label facts could name their favorite Pete Namlook record. There is not, there is no such thing. And maybe you have one, and maybe you’re like angrily typing out an email to me right now that’s like actually this one. But like, in reality, the guy has like over 200 releases to his name. The process is what matters, right? Like, if you think Cadence and Slaying is my best book, I’m grateful and honored, and you know. Thunderstruck that anyone would like my book, and I’ve got really bad news for you for the next book I’m writing.
I think what you’re pointing out here is really important. I’ve always thought of it as outcome independence, it doesn’t matter I’m going to take an action. It doesn’t matter what the result of that action is. What matters is I am practicing taking that action. I am writing an article and I’m going to hit publish, and it doesn’t matter if it’s popular or not. I’m going to ask this person out on a date. And it doesn’t matter if they say yes or no. What matters is I am taking that action and getting better at doing that thing, getting better at honing my voice, getting better at making the clackety noise, getting better at approaching somebody and saying, hey, you seem cool. Do you want to get a drink sometime? The outcome of that action does not matter, does not need to factor into this. What matters is: I’m practicing this thing, I’m getting better at this thing. And Results will improve time, but let’s not focus on the results right now because if we’re too focused on the results, we’re going to get too discouraged.
I do this like messy working in public thing, and it comes off as this very poised in labor. Thing, you know, like I, if you look at my career, if you’re somehow this crazy super fan of my work How did it start out? It started off on like Jacob Nielsen type usability stuff, and then it went into like Robert Bringhurst and Edward Tufte stuff with this weird detour about pure math and applied math. and then went into front end development, and then I got really angry about web standards, and then I got really angry about digital publication standards, and somewhere in there I wrote a book about interaction design and was moderately successful. And then I kind of retreated from public view for three years and then occasionally wrote angry screeds. And then I quit my job and then became known as an independent business owner. And people pay attention to me for this like weird Bootstrap MBA thing, even as I’m yelling about revenue generating design decisions. And that brings us up to the present day. And that makes no sense. There’s no calling in anything I do that other than I do computers and I follow the divining rod of my passions and then yell on the internet about it.
Oh, it connects to that article you wrote, Following the Hunch, and it connects to how I’ve always viewed my approach to business: I’m going to focus on the most interesting thing, and right now the most interesting thing is this, and when it stops being interesting and fun. I’m going to go focus on something else. I mean, you have as crazy of a history as I do. I started a newspaper named The Weekly Enema. I started a consulting company. I started an iPhone flipping business in Hawaii. I switched back to consulting. I did front-end watching. Web dev. I did SEO. I did SEO for e-commerce. I did outreach. I’m now leading this course for freelancers. Like, when you try, I once had a friend say to me, Are you going through a nervous breakdown? Because I don’t understand how any of the things you do connect together. And I’m like, you’re viewing it from one point in time. I’m viewing it as, okay, these skills sort of connect and they’re leading me towards a direction. And yeah, I’m bouncing around, but I’m honing in on something. But to the outside observer, it makes no fucking sense.
It makes no sense. And this is not even advice for the listener, right? Like. I actually kind of wish I had focused a little bit more, but there’s no way to know that like A-B testing was a good route five years ago. Maybe if you got lucky. Or you were in the right circles, it was. But I actually genuinely don’t believe that there’s a good way to know that, because it could have godbust pretty quickly.
Aaron Powell, I view so much a business as making Small strategic bets. And if the bets start to pay off, I start doubling down on that.
So to go back to the like finding your voice bit. I’m going to bring up an example that I sent to you last night as required listening. Do you listen to this song? Oh, I’ve listened to the song before. Okay, great. So there are actually two songs, but one of them is way more interesting. And. Basically, it was these two, I think, like stand-up comedians. They basically ran like this huge Amazon mechanical Turk-type experiment that was a survey on people to like list. Your favorite qualities in your favorite songs, and then like your least favorite qualities in songs. And then they made two songs, and one of them was called the Most Wanted Song, and one of them was called The Most Unwanted Song. And the most wanted song is pretty, pretty straightforward. It’s probably what you’re thinking. It’s a three-minute power pop ballad about falling in love in the summertime. It is almost comically forgettable, and everything you’ve heard on Top 40 radio blended together in this just mash that just It’s not even like plumbing the depths of the KLF manual, because at least the songs that the KLF did were interesting, right? It’s this just Wholly forgettable hollow top 40 thing. And you can have good top 40 things. My God, we have a Beyoncé, but this is not that. This is not that, I assure you. It’s a tremendous disservice to Beyoncé and her creative work to compare her to the most wanted song. Which is funny because it’s not very wanted. You’ve probably never heard the most wanted song. And actually, the most wanted song has like 40,000 views on YouTube, but the most unwanted song has way more, way more. The most unwanted song is twenty-two minutes long. It involves lengthy accordion solos. an opera singer rapping the national anthem, a children’s choir repeatedly telling you to go shopping at Walmart. What else? A whole sing-song rhyme about Ramadan. So like it touches on like political topics and religious topics in a way that’s like really offensive and uncharitable to the to the subject matter. And and there’s like lengthy, like synth pop, like weird things. And just like everything that you’ve ever hated. Everything. Twangy banjo yackety sax shit just randomly in the middle. Tempo changes constantly, unfamiliar time signatures. And it’s Actually, legitimately an amazing song. Like, I strongly encourage you to listen. I tell you, I’ve listened to Probably more music than most people listening to this podcast, which I don’t talk about very often. But, like, I, you know, ran my college’s radio station. It was nationally renowned for four years. I um DJed extensively for almost a decade. I consider myself fairly pan-genre at this point. And this is not an everything except rapper country thing. No, I listen to rap and country also. Thank you for asking. And black and death metal, thank you for asking. And there is nothing, nothing in the world like the most unwanted song. There is nothing. And okay, there’s something to that, right? There’s got to be something within the most unwanted song that indicates a degree of. Cavalier risk-taking. Maybe just cavalier behavior. I don’t know. But some madness had to have created the most unwanted song.
So I’ve got a. Theory on this. I want you to go where you’re going, but I have a theory on this as well. So from the little bit, and like, tell me if I’m way off base here, but from the little bit of research I’ve done on surveying and research methodologies. It’s easier for people to tell you what they dislike about a thing than tell you what they like about a thing. People recognize that pain more often. They’re able to say, I dislike A, B, C, and D. It’s harder for them to pull out the elements they like. So, in doing this research of, well, what do you like most about songs or music and what do you like least about it, we’re going to get a stronger set of responses. From the negative attributes. What do you like least? What elements do you not like in songs? And we’re going to aggregate those, and we’re going to end up with something that’s more emotionally engaging. Than the so-so responses of what do you like in a song. And I think we could see that in that we have multi an order of magnitude more views on YouTube. For the worst song in the world, because it’s a blending of the things that people are most passionate about, the things that they hate the most. That hatred overlaps into enjoyment in some weird and perverse ways, and it leads to the creation of a song that while admittedly terrible, is terrible in a very interesting and exciting and different way. It’s synthesizing all of the strong emotion people have and presenting something new and unique. And. Right.
Yeah, the most unwanted song on YouTube has 313,058 views, 3,731 likes, 91 dislikes, and 1,141 comments. Some example comments. The thing that makes it likable, though, is the brash juxtaposition of opera and rap. It’s fucking good. I feel like this is a representation of every Super Bowl half-time show. I’ve heard worse to be perfectly honest, unrelated, but I hope Walmart paid them for this.
But people are able to grab onto these elements that they dislike and say, oh, but I enjoy it in contrast with it. It’s something to talk about, right?
Yeah. That’s exactly it. And, like. If you think about the three-minute PowerPop ballad, Everyone You Know, without ever hearing the most wanted song, what that is. You’ve heard it a million times. You hear it in the background at Walmart. You hear it like just in the like day-to-day travails of your life, but then this like opera singer solo over an accordion comes in, and you’re like, What? The fuck is this? Oh my, oh my god. And they do it in a way that is actually like this is, I think, the genius of the most unwanted song. It’s actually legible to the listener. So one of my favorite bands is a duo from Manchester called Ottaiker. They have a habit of making electronic music that is very difficult and forbidding. They’ve made 21 albums of it, the latest one of which is five and a half hours long, and I actually legitimately, genuinely like it. This. I have seen them live four times. It is only four times because they’ve only toured the United States four times since 2000. Oh, my. Right. So, you know, I’m pretty in on this van, but Ottaiker I don’t recommend them to people very often. And the amazing thing is, I actually saw Pitchfork review my favorite autica record and one of my like three or four favorite albums of all time a couple of weeks ago because it got remastered and reissued on vinyl and devaluing my vinyl copy of it, which lol. And they said that listening to this record was like returning to a planet that you thought had been ravaged by an apocalypse and being shocked to find there being life there. Because twenty-five years ago you listened to this album and were like, Oh, hell no But now it’s like tuneful and interesting because the state of music caught up to it. And that is literally the denotation of being forward-thinking and risk-taking. You know, is it cutting off as this like baffling horror to start off with? Think about jazz. What did jazz look like in 1940? And Miles Davis coming in and like flipping the table on it, right? And getting booed. How I would, what I would give to be in a room where everyone was booing Miles Davis in a room Miles Davis. Right. But to go to a Miles Davis show. But you know, you get the idea, right? Right. And obviously, everybody wants Ottiker to go touring Tri Repite, which is the record that I’m remarking on right now. But no, they’re actually touring the software patches behind the next record. That’s how they tour. They’ve never actually played a single real Otika song live. Because they’re experimenting in public. And they’re trying to find a voice. And they’re trying to plumb dark, fucked up, weird corners. And if I can give any advice to the audience who hasn’t paused this podcast and noped out yet, it’s that. You are going to end up making a lot of grievous mistakes if you want to do anything that is interesting.
But nobody will notice those mistakes. Like, nobody will care. Yeah. Since, as a creator, you, dear listener, as a creator. See every mistake that you’re making, but your audience doesn’t notice it. And somebody who comes in nine months after the mistake is never going to know it happened. Like the internet, like the internet always remembers, but the internet forgets quite damn quickly. So It’s okay to ship things and be like, eh, this isn’t the best. This is like a C- blog post. Well, it’s going to be replaced by a better blog post sometime soon. You’re going to create some better stuff. Your voice is going to improve over time. It’s always going to change. And that’s okay. And The voice and the tone and the style you’re using today might be dramatically different than the tone you’re using and voice you’re using in two or three years, but that’s natural, and that evolution should happen. Good mistakes get forgotten.
By your audience, I think that’s true. It’s when you don’t make a mistake that people start paying attention. Because everyone doesn’t have the time and attention, you know?
Yeah. Hmm. What makes sense for somebody listening to this? They’re saying, I want to write more. I want to create more. I want to do the bloggable. I want a voice. What I have a couple ideas in mind. I’m curious for you first, though. What do you recommend that person do? What’s their month, three-month plan? What’s that next step?
It’s. Well, write a lot, speak a lot, and care about the quality of what you’re saying. care about not wasting the reader or listener’s time, and do not care about making mistakes as much, because you’re your biggest critic. This is much easier said than done. This is suppressing all of the panic impulses that we have, right? And I’m able to suppress most of my panic impulses. You know, I did an Ignite talk last week and I fucked it up, but I got mobbed at the end of it. I’m the only one who has to know fucked it up. Right? I know I fucked it up. Now I guess everyone that’s listening to this podcast knows I fucked it up. But actually, that doesn’t matter. What matters is the actual work that’s being put in front of the person. And you have to Let go and believe that they are smart enough to make their own conclusions about whether or not it’s valuable, because the value found in it is subjective only to them. This could be a horrible podcast episode that no one listens to. But we tried, we did something with it. And there were some pauses in it that maybe the editor can fix. I don’t know. But you know I didn’t do it with any fear or shame or worry because I’ve got better shit to worry about.
I think you’re right. You have better shit to worry about. And also, there’s the fact that you can’t, you, you, you, me, you, listener, can’t view a single piece of work in isolation. Like, We can’t say, ah, this one episode of Make Money Online wasn’t as good as we expected, or it was better than we expected. We should stop now. It’s part of a continuum, just like all the articles and content I’ve created. It’s all part of a continuum. Some’s below average, some’s above average. That’s what having an average means. And it’s okay. And I think over time, what I at least shoot for is I want the average to move up. I don’t want every post I create or everything I make to be amazing because that’s impossible. What I want is like a year-over-year slight increase. I’m like, oh, it’s getting a little better. Oh, it’s getting a little better. And after 10 goddamn years, I’ll have 10 years of improvement. But I only get there by. Acknowledging the part of my brain that goes, that article isn’t good, you shouldn’t publish it, and saying, Thank you, Monkey Mind, I’m going to hit publish anyway, and see what happens. Because, like we said on the last episode, We’re privileged enough to not have a super large audience that’s saying, like, 50,000 people are going to read that thing you wrote. It’s like we have a small, moderate-sized audience who’s going to read that thing we wrote. And It’s okay if the thing isn’t that good. It’s okay if people unsubscribe. It’s okay if people don’t listen. What matters is we made the thing, and next week we’re going to show up and make another thing. And the week after that, we’re going to show up and make another thing. And it’s through that process. We’re going to better refine our voice, find our voice, develop that voice, and become better at making whatever it is we’re making.
Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re right. Just like. Don’t be afraid. Don’t let things hold you back, you know? Like, I know you get only one life and that makes you feel afraid, but like You also get only one life, and you’re not going to be on your deathbed being like, I wish I was more boring.
I’ve been listening to this one song by Amanda Palmer. Recently on repeat, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help your black ass. And there’s two lines in it I absolutely love. No plans in life, and I’m planning to keep it that way. And I have already spent too much time doing things I didn’t want to. And both of those just really resonate with me. And I think if you’re showing up and creating things that you enjoy creating and creating things that help your audience, help your readers, help your clients grow their business in some direction, and you enjoy that process of creation. Focus on doing that. You’re right. You only have one life. You only have 80 revolutions around this goddamn sun. Well, use it. Use them to create things you enjoy. Use them to find the voice. Use them to push past that point where you’re a little uncomfortable or you feel vulnerable or you feel like you’re exposing a little too much and say, What happens if I play in this space? What reactions happen from it? The best response I ever had on my mailing list was when I wrote about a bad date experience I had and what it taught me about writing emails. I got some absurd number. Like 50 people responded back, not about the email portion, but about the, oh my gosh, I had the same bad date experience. And Before I hit send, I was like, everybody’s gonna fucking hate this. It’s Kai ranting about his bad dating life again on the internet, and they’re gonna be like, oh, so boring. People love talking about dating lives, though. People love it. It surprised me. And like, it’s pushed me more and more. And like, I’m a slow ship to steer and turn, but it’s pushing me more and more to saying, like. How do I peel back the flesh and skin and bone? How do I be a little more vulnerable on the podcast, when I write, in my articles, in my newsletter, in whatever medium it is? And say, like, well, this is who I really am. This is my real authentic voice. And if you don’t like it, I am happy and full of joy that you don’t like it because I’d rather somebody be polarized by my voice and say, I love what Kai creates. I want to listen to it more. Or I hate what that guy does. I don’t want to listen to a single goddamn thing he makes. God, because somebody.
Okay, important story. Record scratch. No, we got to do this. Okay, so Cadence and Slang comes out a month after I get an email from one of the co-founders of Kickstarter, which, like, Cadence and Slang was one of the earliest projects on Kickstarter from like 2009. So, like. It was still very possible to get access to like one of the higher ups, a Kickstarter very quickly. And I get an email or a call or some other text message or whatever from them. And they’re like, you won’t believe what just happened. I was like, what? I just got berated in a bar by somebody who saw a copy of your book on the bar that I was reading. And said, Fuck that guy. I hate him. And so one of the co-founders of Kickstarter got accosted by someone because he was reading my book.
Good. Good. I mean, that’s the type of response I think we’re all shooting for. Like, it’s, I, I. I don’t enjoy it when people unsubscribe, but I’m happy when people unsubscribe. Oh, I love it. I love it. It’s confirming like I am taking a stance and. I want people to be on the other side of that line. I want to say Zig, and other people are like, Zag, fuck off Ziggers, Zag all the way. And That’s what you get by having a distinctive voice. You get people who say, This is for me, these are to quote Paul Jarvis, my rap people. These are the people I connect best with. And you get people who say, that’s not for me. And that’s good. I mean, there’s so many times when I’ve said, like, I don’t enjoy this newsletter anymore. I’m not part of this person’s following. Or I don’t enjoy reading this person’s books. They’re not for me. That’s great. That makes space for the next person who says, This is for me. And I want to elicit that same reaction in people. They’re either for it or not for it. They either enjoy my voice or they do not enjoy my voice. But to get to that point of having a voice that’s polarizing. I think it comes down to making the clackety noise and peeling back the skin, peeling back the flesh and bone a little bit, or flesh and blood a little bit, and showing who you really are as a vulnerable person.
Yeah. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. So I hope that everyone unsubscribes from your mailing list. Thank you for listening to our podcast.