Episode 19:Grist for the Mill
Kai and Nick discuss the importance of repurposing your content as a consultant, ‘using your sawdust,’ so to speak. You can turn one piece of content (like a podcast interview) into a series of articles, a webinar, or additional pieces of content that are all relevant to your audience. Also? Jam bands and what you, as a consultant, can learn from The Grateful Dead.
Summary
Nick and Kai argue that using any piece of content only once is wasted efficiency; the same material can be transcribed, chunked, repackaged, and resold across many formats. The episode covers the full stack: rev.com transcriptions at roughly $1/minute, copy editors for cleanup, splitting larger works into modular assets, and bundling curated collections for sale. The Grateful Dead’s discography, 200-plus albums built mostly from live recordings and curation rather than new studio work, is the closing frame for what this looks like at scale.
Highlights
- Kai’s repurposing chain starts with a transcript: one podcast episode becomes a transcript, then articles pulled from the main ideas, then content upgrades or bonuses attached to his book.
- Nick puts a price on the starting step: rev.com charges roughly $1/minute, so a 30-minute episode costs $30 to transcribe. A copy editor then cleans up the spoken-to-written gap without touching the argument.
- Kai’s webinar math: one event yields a transcript, three future webinars, three articles, and three future podcast topics. His running count hits 10 pieces of content from a single source event.
- The fear that audiences will notice reused content is unfounded. Kai’s counter: the average site visitor views about three pages, so the odds anyone cross-references an archived article against a mailing list issue are close to zero.
- Nick’s Draft Evidence is roughly 350 pages built almost entirely from existing work. The five new essays took two afternoons. The rest was typesetting and editing.
- Alan Weiss’s Million Dollar Coaching is, in Nick’s read, Million Dollar Consulting with about 30 pages of coaching material added. Kai’s counter: a reader new to Weiss gets full value regardless of the overlap.
- Kai proposes the music single as a product model: a short 10-page e-book at $9 that solves one problem and builds interest in the larger book or course to follow.
Read the transcript
How many times do you use your content? Like when you make something new?
I’ve recently in the last year become a big, big fan of the idea of repurposing content. I originally was really opposed to it, thinking that if I write an article It should only stay as an article. But after talking with some really intelligent people, after reading some articles that Sean DeSouza has put out, I’ve switched tracks and I’ve realized the value to a customer or a client isn’t, I made this thing, it’s a one-off thing for you. It’s Here’s a thing that will help you solve a problem. And if I’m able to repackage existing content I have, articles, interviews, e-books, chapters, sort of sawdust from other client reports. Into something that solves a customer or a client’s problem, that’s where the value really is in the packaging and the delivering of it. So I’ve moved more and more towards Reusing content and reusing content in different forms. If I record a podcast, I’m starting a workflow where I’ll have a transcription service make a transcript for it. So now I could offer people the transcript. But then I’ll read through the transcript and say, like, well, what are the main ideas in here? And turn a couple into articles. And then I’ll turn those articles into content upgrades or bonuses for my book. So I’m viewing it as a one-to-many relationship between initial piece of content and the ways I could distribute the content. How about you?
Pretty much the same thing, actually. And I’ve begun doing this in earnest only in the past few months. Whenever I create something new, I think about all the other ways that I can use it. And we just talked about positioning on a recent episode. This is the benefit to having good positioning, because then your content stays coherent, right? It’s all of a piece. If I’m writing something for a client, I know it’s going to be about A B testing. If I’m writing a book about A B testing, then I can take that and make it grist for the mill for A B testing over here, right? I’m just started Revise Weekly, and that’s going to eventually become serialized into a larger book about A B testing or an info product about A B testing. And so having that kind of consistency has empowered me significantly to say, okay, well, I’m making this. Maybe it’s turning into a talk in some capacity. Maybe it’s turning into something where I’m But like a case study or something like that. Well, how else can I use that? How else can I spin those stories? How else can I Make sure that I’m getting as much mileage out of what I’m doing as humanly possible. Because if you do something, I want to be very, very clear in the first few minutes of this episode. If you do something that can only be used once, you are wasting your efficiency. You have the opportunity to create something that can be used in many different contexts in an evergreen way. And you can update it and iterate it and improve it that way. But you are if you make something once for one person, you’re. Not even teaching yourself to fish. You’re handing yourself a fish. And I love fish, they’re delicious. But you need to be able to eat, you know? You need to be able to have a practice around building your business in a sensible way. I. Think that a lot of people out there just use their stuff once. They put it on a blog. They don’t rework it. So, what are the ways that we reuse this? And And continue engaging with people in a significant, meaningful way?
What I found is most useful is, in my practice at least, It’s a process of looking at the content and figuring out how and where I could split off pieces of it. I’ve been of the mind shift, and this is only a recent mind shift in the last month or so. That I look at something like my book Podcast Outreach, and I view it as a singular thing. It is a book. It is a book-shaped object. I could distribute it as a book. But the truth is, it’s 13 chapters, and each chapter has different sections in it. And I could chip off any single piece of that. and provide value to my audience or readers or subscribers or clients. Like I have a section in there on how to do outreach or how to write good emails. If I’m on a podcast talking about how to write good emails, well, I could chip off half of that chapter and be like, hey, here’s a bonus for you. Like, here’s 1500 words I wrote about how to write great emails. So I think part of it is looking at content you produce. And starting to view it as individual pieces and then saying, well, how can I leverage these individual pieces? Another great example is with podcast outreach. I’ve recorded 15 different expert interviews with folks like Brennan Dunn and Bryce Bladen from Clients from Hell and Joanna Weavy. And I’m looking at those and saying, well, these are great. This is great content. They’re great interviews. How could I better distribute these to people? And so I’m starting to think about: well, great, I want a transcript for every single one of these. I want to make them available to people to read on my website or view on my website. I want to have them out there as content upgrades. So if I write a post about, you know, Calls to action. Well, I could have Joanna’s video as like a content upgrade for the call to action there. So I think one mind shift that’s really necessary is Looking at the content you’re producing and not thinking of it as a singular piece of content that could only be used once, but instead viewing it as Different answers to questions people in your audience are asking. And as you identify those questions out in the wild, figuring out, oh, I could chip off this piece. And make it available here.
Yeah, yeah. Making transcripts is one really helpful one. Go to rev. com, make transcripts there. It’s, I think, like a dollar a minute. So, you know, like a Make Money Online episode is 30 bucks. And you’ve got thirty bucks laying around, man. And it’s not the world’s best copy because you talk different from how you write. So then you find a copywriter. and a copy or not copywriter, copy editor, and that and then they go through and clean it up, you can find a good copy editor for relatively affordable. And they are pretty fast at what they do. And they’re not trying to edit your argument. They’re not trying to like Help you build a better, more persuasive situation. They’re trying to make it coherent. And that is a very powerful thing that you can do there. Sorry?
I just started working with a copy editor for the first time in my life, and it is seriously one of the best investments I have ever made because, exactly like you said, they aren’t changing my argument. They aren’t changing the structure of what I’m saying. They’re making sure I’m using correct grammar. They’re making sure that my sentences read correctly. And I read through my copy editor’s revisions. She’s editing podcast outreach right now. And I’m like, oh man, like, you aren’t changing what I’m saying. You’re just making it so I don’t look like I wrote this at 2 a. m. while I was tired, which I happen to have done. So. Yeah, a copy editor like that is such a wonderful investment. So helpful.
It’s so helpful. You can also use the copy editor for your mailing list. If you’re writing a lot. Just have them scrub it, and that way you don’t have to worry about the editing process, and you can continue focusing on generating valuable content for people. ‘Cause that way you’re the ideas person. This is for the record how high profile, fancy, high powered executives become atrocious writers. They lean on that, which is better or worse. And you know that good writing is good editing. But yes.
On the idea of sort of turning larger pieces of content or larger things into smaller pieces, I think it jumps back to an idea of, like you mentioned, Having strong positioning when you understand the target market you’re trying to reach, when you understand the expensive problems they are experiencing. It’s a lot easier for you to say, like, oh, I see how this singular podcast episode can be used in a number of different ways, or how this Article I wrote can be used in a number of different ways because you could package it up in different ways. You could distribute it at different times. You could have it as a content upgrade. You could have it as a bonus on your list. You could have it as something that you share for clients once they cross the payment threshold. And it’s only by recognizing that, huh, this article can actually take a ton of different forms: be it an article on my site, a beautiful document that I can make available to them, a spoken word transcript. That you realize, wow, the value isn’t just in creating the thing, the value is in making the thing available to people at the moment they most need it.
Yeah, absolutely. And you’re probably listening to this whole conversation and thinking, oh, I can’t do this. Somebody will read my content elsewhere and think I’m a sham. They don’t give a shit.
Whenever I get that pushback from people, and I get that pushback a lot, since I often consult on ways to improve an information product. And people are like, I can’t reuse that article. People have already read it. And I’m like, listen, you have 45 articles on your site. Your archives go back eight pages. Your average bounce rate or your average pages viewed on your site is three. So the average person reading your site has read three pages. Are they going to go six pages back in the archive to find the singular article? No. Jam it into your mailing list. Make it available for everybody that subscribes. The worst case scenario is somebody is so engaged enough that they write you back and say, Oh, I read this on your blog. You also sent it out on your mailing list. And your response to that is, I hope you enjoyed the article.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is one of those things where I think it’s just an ego thing. You assume that everyone is following absolutely everything that you’re doing. And I mean, we should all be so lucky, but also you’re speaking on many different fronts, right? You might be social media. Okay, well, you might have one audience on social media. It might be a mailing list. You might have a different audience on the mailing list. There are probably very few people. I mean, you’re not Amanda Palmer or John Darneal, where you have, you know, you’re a reasonably large star and. People are following you on every single medium that you possibly have. Like, even if you join Yik Yak, then all of a sudden you have 10 million followers on Yik Yak. Like, that’s not how. running a bootstrapped business works, even if it is how you behave in real life with the people that you respect and care about. So again, this is something that you need to recognize your missing out on a huge opportunity to repurpose your content in many different fronts. And that can be for, like Kai says, different outlets, right? So Okay, I’m posting to Insta and Twitter and Facebook, and they’re slightly different, but they’re materially the same. It might be a photo or something like that. Or it’s at different Like logistic periods in a consultancy, right? Like, this came out during my mailing list. Okay, now it’s a how-to guide that’s part of my mailing list, carrot. Okay, now it’s part of a how-to guide that I send out as a welcome packet for my clients. Okay, now it’s part of a paid info product. And you could pull it down and redo that. Very few people, if ever, are going to call you on it. And if they call you on it, give it to them for free. It defangs it. Like, what’s the downside of somebody calling you on it? Are they going to write a takedown post about you? I would love someone to write a takedown post about me. That’s a sign that I’m awesome.
No, and you’re absolutely right. You’re able to package it in so many different ways. And somebody who buys an e-book or a product of yours and is saying Well, great. You know, I need a template for one. One great example is a template for reaching out to people to be on their podcast. Well, I’ve published that in two different forms on my blog, but I also repurposed that in my book. And nobody’s complained about it because at the point when I’m like, You need a template to reach out to podcasts. Hey, here’s the template you can use to reach out to podcasts that I use myself every single week. They’re like, oh, perfect. You identified the problem. You provided me a solution. Nobody’s going to say, oh, I also read that same template on your website. Please give me a new template. They’re going to say, you provided the value right when I needed it. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s making sure you’re providing the value at the right time. Timing your communications effectively is not easy, but it is the most important thing. And when you start to think about it in terms of the timing and the optics of when you’re actually Selling to people, or communicating to people, or educating people, or doing whatever it is you need to be doing, then you start to get a lot more comfortable with the notion of reusing your content or repurposing your content. I look at an author like Alan Weiss. Alan Weiss has written like, what, 80 books now? Like an insane amount of books. And Many of them contain very similar content. I bought a book called, when I started draft coaching a year or two ago, I bought a book called Million Dollar Coaching just to read it. And it’s his book Million Dollar Consulting with about 30 pages of coaching grafted onto it. And that part was valuable, and I’m grateful that I got to read it and it fit into his worldview very well. But in many ways, it felt quite redundant.
But to somebody, but I’ll take the opposite point and say, to somebody who has not been exposed to a large range of his works, and we’ve both read multiple books of his. Who picks up million dollar coaching, it’s going to be like, oh man, this is answering all the questions I had, even though there’s an overlap between how to be a million-dollar consultant and how to be a million-dollar coach, and there’s reused content there. It still provides value. We just, by virtue of having read multiple books of his, more easily pick up on that.
Yeah, it’s easy because I’ve I mean, it’s almost a good problem because I’ve already read all of his stuff. You know, like, I know how great he is. And so I went and I read this, and I was like, oh. That’s real similar. Okay. And there wasn’t anything horrible about it. It was just that was what it was. And it was helpful, and it was formatted in that way. But he didn’t think, oh, maybe people are going to hate this, you know? I don’t think that never crossed his mind.
Yep. I’m guessing his thought was: okay, this is, these are the questions people are going to have, are going to be asking about being a million-dollar coach. I happen to have already written the answers. I’m going to reuse those answers because why reinvent the wheel? One example coming down the pipeline for me is After I launch podcast outreach, I’m going to start work on a book about guest article outreach and how to land guest articles as a writer. I know one of those sections is going to be like writing effective emails. Like, how do you write an email that gets a response from somebody? I’ve already written that twice in the Outreach Blueprint and in Podcast Outreach. So, I’m going to wholesale like drag and drop across the content, edit it a bit, but it’s going to be 90% the same. I’m not afraid of that because it’s going to provide the same amount of value to somebody who picks up the book and says, I need to understand how to send an email to an editor and pitch a guest article. Cool, this is how you do it. If you’ve read podcast outreach, you’ll be like, huh, this is 90% the same. Well, that’s because it’s 90% the same process. There’s no need for me as the author to You know, say, I have to throw it all away and start over, base principles, build it all up again. Instead, I’m able to say, okay, I happen to have answered this question before. Answering this question again is valuable in this context. I’m going to reuse that content. And I think. Amy Hoy in 30 by 500 talks a little about this. They have a process called fix storming, where you identify all the possible solutions available to A customer or a person experiencing a problem that you’ve identified that you want to solve as a product creator. And I think going through that exercise, you realize: wow. The same solution can be made available in different formats and provide a lot of value. We, like right now, we’re recording a podcast about, you know, high-level about being consultants and making money online. Any of these topics can also be articles or videos or worksheets. Like, here’s a one-page checklist to reusing your content. And it doesn’t do a disservice to any of the other forms of content by identifying the different shapes it could take. It just provides more opportunities for our audience, for readers, for subscribers to engage in the medium that they prefer.
I am creating a book right now called Draft Evidence that contains a lot of my previous work. And one of the things in draft evidence is a transcript of this very podcast cleaned up and repurposed. There are letters and essays and other design work and photographs and random stuff in there, and it’s All things I’ve done before except for five essays. And that’s it. And those five essays took me two afternoons to write. Like, most of this work is in typesetting and editing. It’s not very difficult. So that’s one example, right? I mean, I just ran an MMO episode through rev. com and out came the beginning of a well-typeset. Awesome. Actionable lesson about all of this. I took five of my A-B testing-related emails that I’ve sent out as letters on my mailing list and turned them into five-sevenths of a drip campaign. The other two took me three hours to write. I took a talk that I was giving about redesigning a SaaS business. Redesigned a SaaS business in the process, gave a teardown of it, and then took all of the paperwork behind that and made it the example for productized service that I later sold $8,000 worth of. And this is not hard. In fact, it was extremely easy for me to just take it and slap a new coat of paint on it and present it in a different context. The hard thing in this is being able to think at a more critical and strategic level about how you can create something that fulfills multiple wings of your business. That’s the real million-dollar question.
Yeah, I’d say there’s also an element of fear that you get over with a mind shift where you realize, okay. My audience isn’t going to be examining everything I do with a microscope. My audience isn’t going to read everything I put out. They aren’t going to read every single issue of my mailing list, every single article, every single podcast episode. And It’s to their benefit actually if you appropriately reuse content, if you send out transcripts of like here’s an example. I subscribe to MixerG. I like listening to their interviews with successful entrepreneurs and startup founders. I happen to hate watching video on the internet. I don’t know why. If you send me a link to a video, I’ll say, ha ha, nice, and then not click a link to watch it because I just Don’t do video online, but they publish transcripts of every single one of their interviews. And so, what I do is I read through the transcript and I’m like, oh, this is awesome! This is valuable. I am so happy to give Andrew Warner money. Because he’s realized, okay, the video interview, well, I should make an audio version of that so people could listen to it as a podcast. I should make a written version of it so people could read it. And by reusing the content in that very simple way, You’re making it easier for people who otherwise wouldn’t have engaged with your content to engage with your content, to read it, to like it, to share it.
Yeah, absolutely. You got to toot your own horn because other people are doing it more efficiently than you. And that should be scary. This is a way of competing with others.
I had a call with a friend a couple days ago, and we were talking about ways to reuse content. And I was saying, well, think about it this way. You do a webinar, and you get a transcript made of the webinar, and you read the transcript, and you share the transcript with folks. Okay, that’s two pieces of content already. You read through the transcript and you figure out that there are three big ideas you touched on. Well, those are three ideas for future webinars and three ideas for future podcasts, six more pieces of content. Those are also three more articles you could write. Three more pieces of content. We’re up to 10 pieces of content off of a single webinar. And each, it’s almost an iterative ongoing process where, okay, I’m going to record a podcast episode on this one topic I talked about in the webinar. Well, you’re probably going to touch on other things and generate a transcript and generate an article from that. So, really, by viewing this as an iterative process where you take A seed piece of content or a seed thing that you’ve done, and find the different ways to iterate through it, create additional pieces of content echoing off of it or in different shapes and forms, that’s valuable. And six months down the line, you might be able to say, well, hey, I’ve done a bunch of podcast episodes. My audience keeps saying, I really love your marketing episodes. I wish there was an easy way for me to listen to just all of those. Well, you could package those up. Here’s a collection of six MP3s. It’s $19. What have you done? You’ve taken the hard work off of that person’s plate of sorting through your archive and said, You want the six episodes on marketing that have gotten the most downloads? Done. Here it is. It’s $19. And they get to make that decision at that point. Is it worth $19 to me to have this all available immediately? Or do I want to spend 20 or 30 minutes sorting through the archives and finding these episodes myself? Some people will do it themselves. Some people will say, sweet, here’s 19 bucks. Thank you. And it’s repackaging like that that I think is also incredibly valuable to keep in mind. Just curating your own content. And making it available in an easy-to-digest format, that’s valuable for somebody who’s in your audience because they don’t have to worry about it or think about it. And I think about like where 18 episodes into Make Money Online. I hope we get to 200 episodes into Make Money Online. There’ll be a point when somebody will approach us and say, I love your episode. I really want to listen to all the episodes about building my consulting business or how to create products. And they’re going to be mixed throughout those 200-odd episodes. But by making it available as a collection, hey, here’s the curated list and here’s a bonus episode for you because we love you so much. That has a lot of value.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, like. Look at other artists doing this. How many greatest hits compilations have you ever purchased? How many box sets have you ever purchased? How many like collected works of have you ever seen? you know, and and this is a sign that you’re if you already have enough writing or content together to make an anthology of something, I mean, that feels in many ways like a victory lap or like a Almost like a power move, you know, like you’re showing, look at all of this dope stuff I made. Here it is. Draft evidence is going to be like 350 pages long. It’s enormous. And I did not realize that it was going to be enormous. But it is. And I’m very grateful for that. But it’s also something like. Here’s what I do, thunk tome. And you’re like, oh god.
Like, a really cool example of this is: let’s go to the grateful dead. Since we can always talk about the Grateful Dead more here, Dick’s Pics. So Dick’s Picks is a series of releases by The Grateful Dead put together by, oh, I can’t remember the guy’s full name. His name is Richard. Richard, this, and a collection of the live shows, and it’s basically the live albums, just like Hey, here are some great live recordings from The Grateful Dead. And there’s some absurd number of Dick’s Picks volumes out there. I can’t find the The count in front of me, but I know my dad, a huge Rapel Dead fan, has over a dozen of these. And what have they done but taken the live shows, which, you know, live shows are a lot different than studio recordings. Packaged it up and said, Hey, audience, if you want to download this or download, buy this curated list of concert recordings, awesome, here it is. Have fun and people love it. Deadheads said it was a significant breakthrough when they released the first volume of Dick’s Picks because It gave them access to content that they wouldn’t otherwise have had. It curated the content. You don’t have to sort through all of the Grateful Dead’s live shows. It’s amazing. And like on a meta level, if we could go like six episodes deep on. the ways the Grateful Dead monetized and reused their content in amazing, amazing, innovative ways.
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know what? If you’re not a Grateful Dead fan or like a Fish fan or you don’t care about jam bands, you look at that and you’re like, it’s the same song. They’re just playing the same songs on half of these recordings. How many albums do Grateful Dead have? Probably a lot, but like, how many are actually put out in a live context? Actually, probably not a whole lot. And if you go to a Grateful Dead show or a Fish show, you’re probably not coming in expecting I’m going to know every single song. Right. But they have a process around it that allows them to re they’re they’re doing the exact same thing we’re talking about here: bootlegging. They’re recording them talking about something. They’re um Reusing their content in a really useful way. They’re encouraging people to spread the word. And Grateful Dead, if you don’t believe they are part of the pantheon of rock music at this point, I don’t know what to do for you. I’m not even a giant Grateful Dead fan, but their legacy is secure, right? For many, many, many years. They never have to worry. And their lead singer’s been dead for 20 years. Their lead singer, being dead, can drink. Okay? That’s how dead. And they’re still one of the most important and influential bands. Be like that in your consultancy.
I’m looking at their discography right now, and I think it really illustrates what we’re talking about. I’m just going to read selected excerpts from this because it’s a really, really long list. 13 studio albums, okay? 10 live albums, 7 compilation albums, 6 box sets, 54 retrospective live albums, 36 Dix Pics 18 Dave’s pics, which are just curated lists of curated C D’s of their live shows. Please tell me it’s a curation of Dick’s pics. They just have to Dick’s pics. And a 15-digital download series. But all they’ve done is say, like, okay, cool, we have this content. How could we make it more accessible for our audience? How could we make it more interesting? How could we repackage it? They could have stopped that. 13 studio albums and 10 live albums, but they added another 200 albums to their discography by curating and packaging the content in interesting ways. There’s more out there, and there is more coming.
And who cares about the 13 studio albums of the Grateful Dead? That’s actually not even that many when you think about how long they’ve been around. Look at the Rolling Stones. Look at Sonic Youth. They all put out. Dozens of records. You too did a lot of records. And the Beatles, I think, released roughly that many records in only nine, ten years that they were around. You know, you look at these classic bands and how many Grateful Dead records that were recorded in a studio have you even listened to? I think I’ve never heard an actual Grateful Dead song that was recorded on in a studio. I’ve heard hundreds of bootlegs because you can’t not. It’s water at this point. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, you.
Sorry. No, you.
But and even the concept of I like how we’re merging music with product creation here because I think there’s a lot of cool overlaps. Like even the concept of a single, I think is something that The product creation and consultant crowd should be more aware of like a single is me releasing one track off of the album to build interest, to make people excited about this, to make some revenue. Why can’t we apply that to a consulting practice or a product creation practice? What would a single look like? Well, it’s a short e-book. Well, let’s make a short, you know, 10-page e-book and make it available for $9. If it solves a problem, if it helps somebody. Great. And then we’re able to package that as part of the larger book that comes down the line. But it builds up interest for what that future live album or studio album in the consulting world is: a book, a product, a course.
You have the opportunity to create a publishing company. And I know that sounds scary, but you’re in the business of educating people. And you need to figure out how to engage with them in the right media, in the right context. The better of an educator and writer and speaker and artist you’re going to be, the better your chances are going to be. It doesn’t matter what field you’re in. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing or what you’re educating. But you are running a media empire. You are Rupert Dang Murdoch. Own it and do everything you can to nurture it.
Notes:
- Revise Weekly
- A humble weekly newsletter about fish
- Rev, our preferred transcription service
- Making the clackity noise (Merlin Mann on writing)
- Amy Hoy and 30x500 (The best course out there on building products)
- Grateful Dead Discography
- Dark Star, by the Grateful Dead